Building a Quality Back | Toney Freeman & Johnnie Jackson Go Back & Forth
Building a Quality Back
Toney Freeman & Johnnie Jackson Go Back & Forth
At first glance they might seem to have little in common, simply because Toney Freeman has about 8 inches of height on Johnnie Jackson. But look beyond their stature, and these two veterans of the iron game are more similar than different. Johnnie earned his pro card by virtue of being crowned the Overall NPC National Champion in 2001, and Toney did the same thing a year later. Since then they have both made good use of their pro cards, with Toney having competed in 62 IFBB events so far to Johnnie’s 69. They can also lay claim to being two of the most senior pros today. Johnnie is 44 and Toney is 48, yet they both still routinely beat men 10 and 20 years younger. When it comes to physiques, they both own amazing backs: wide, thick, and detailed with the level of seasoned maturity that only comes from literally decades of very hard work in the gym. I spoke with these two elder statesmen of the muscle game about back training, and they shared some insights that anyone from young bucks to grizzled veterans can learn from. (Originally published in the August 2013 edition of MD Magazine.)
RH: Chins— some bodybuilders do and some don’t. Do you guys? Are they necessary?
JJ: Necessary? Absolutely! I don’t think you can ever truly develop the size, detail and separation in the upper back to the maximum without plenty of chin-ups. Granted, currently I don’t always do them in each and every workout. But once my prep starts and my weight begins to drop, I typically do start every back workout with them. In the off-season when I’m really heavy, they’re awkward and I can feel the strain on my joints.
TF: You may not need to do chins later on in your career, but in the early and intermediate stages they are a must. Like I said, I was really good at chins. I used to start every back workout with 100 reps no matter how many sets it took, and until I started adding weight on I could do that in 3 sets. Even today at 300 pounds, I can knock out 15-20 reps on my first set. Chins should not be done with a ballistic tempo. I do them slowly and squeeze my upper back at the top. I do chins every day as part of my morning routine with cardio and core work. I find that they help stretch my abs out after doing things like planks and kettlebell swings.
RH: Next topic, T-bar rows. I see you were using both the supported machine type with the chest pad and the barbell on the floor version. Do you consider these different exercises? Is one better than other?
JJ: They are different movements. When you use the free bar, the lower back is a lot more involved to keep your body stable. Even the glutes and the hams are getting worked a little bit. The machine with the pad will isolate the upper and middle part of the back without the lower back getting worked. Guys with lower back injuries would want to choose that one because you could still go pretty heavy on it, safely. Another bonus for the machine version is that because of the way the bar is shaped, you’re able to pull it back further and get a longer range of motion for the contraction.
TF: I agree with Johnnie about the machine, but it does have one drawback in that your breathing will be restricted once you start going heavy because you’re up against that pad. I do like the fact that it has variable grip handles. With the barbell, sometimes I use the close-grip attachment under the bar, and other times I literally just hold on to the bar itself with no attachment, wrapping my hands around it. That gives you a different feel.
RH: In the photos, you two are doing some type of standing close-grip lat pulldown. What’s that for and where did you get it?
JJ: That was Toney’s idea and he can probably explain it better because I don’t really do it. I will say it seems to be good for stretching and elongating the lower lats.
TF: It’s a peak contraction movement. To me it feels like the last part of a pullover, and it does hit the lats deep down where they insert.
RH: Deadlifts. Johnnie is pretty much Mr. Deadlift as we all know. Toney, do you do deadlifts consistently in your training?
TF: I do deadlifts on both back and leg days. I use an over-under powerlifting grip when I do them on back day, and an overhand grip on leg day. Every back and leg workout for me now starts with lying leg curls and deadlifts to warm up and loosen the hamstrings and lower back. I was having a lot of issues with lower back tightness until I started doing that. These days I go up to 405 for sets of 8-10 on deadlifts. I could do 500 or more, but I wouldn’t be able to get that feeling I’m after in my back. I would just be powering the weight up. I want to feel constant tension on my entire back, from traps to lumbars, on every rep.
RH: What would you say are the biggest mistakes bodybuilders make with their back training?
JJ: One thing I see all the time is guys using a very wide grip on chins, lat pulldowns and barbell rows because they think it’s going to make their lats wider. If you’re 6’2” like Toney then sure, that might be fine. But for guys of average height or shorter, you’re just going to shorten up your range of motion so much that the lats are hardly getting worked. For instance, on lat pulldowns with the standard type of bar, most people should have their hands right about where the bar starts to bend and no wider. And if you use too wide of a grip on any type of row, you’re going to end up hitting more rear delts than lats.
TF: A lot of guys use mostly their arms and rear delts on all their back exercises. I knew a guy who had legit 23-inch arms and monster shoulders, but a flat back. One time I watched him train and I could see right away they were doing all the work. I teach people that to engage the lats, every rep has to be thought of as a three-part movement. First, your shoulder blades move back, then the elbows, and finally the arms. Once you can break it down like that and master that sequence until it flows naturally, your back will start to grow.
RH: Which would yield the best results for back training, and why?
A) Free weights only
B) Machines and cables only
C) Free weights, machines and cables
JJ: C, all of the above! You should use every tool in the toolbox when it comes to your back. You have so many different muscle groups back there that have different functions, so it makes sense to hit them from a lot of different angles. Free weights always need to be in there because that’s the foundation, but machines and cables are also excellent complements to them. I think most people would agree that there aren’t too many pros today that train as old-school as me and Branch, and we use all of those on back day.
TF: You can’t get that 3-D look to your back like Kai and Phil have without a wide variety of exercises. That’s the beauty of modern bodybuilding. We have all the tried-and-true basic tools that they did back in the day, but we also have so many excellent machines at our disposal to select from.
RH: Can you recommend a good basic back workout for a beginner?
JJ: Sure.
Lat Pulldowns Warm-up 2 x 15-20, 3 x 10-12
Deadlifts Warm-up 2 x 15, 3 x 10
One-Arm Dumbbell Rows 3 x 10
Seated Cable Rows 3 x 10-12
Hyperextensions 3 x 10
TF: I would do with:
Lying Leg Curls 2 x 25
Deadlifts 4 x 10-15, pyramiding up in weight
Chin-Ups 4 x 10-12 (add weight if needed)
Barbell Rows 4 x 10-12
Lat Pulldowns 4 x 10-12
RH: What is the craziest or most intense back workout you ever did?
JJ: It might sound like a lame answer, but every workout that I do with Branch is right up there. It’s the hardest workout of the week, even worse than legs— because it’s the one area Branch is the most concerned with. We will do around 30-40 work sets and it’s rough— especially once the weather starts heating up in Texas like it already is.
RH: How about you, X-Man— is there one workout that stands out in your mind?
TF: Yes there is. It was in 2002 when I was training for the NPC Nationals. The two guys I was training with at the time were powerlifters. They would do a few bodybuilding exercises for me, and to appease them I would do what they wanted too. There were a couple of back workouts where we just did deadlifts. We would work up to five plates, and then do these drop sets of 10 reps each with five, four, three, two and finally one plate. There was literally no rest, because we never let go of the bar. The other two guys would strip the plates off for you. It was just brutal. After those 50 reps, your whole body felt like it was on fire and you just wanted to lie down. One of the guys was only 190 pounds, and he did the same weight and reps as me, which was impressive.
RH: That covers back training. Is there anything you two would like to say to each other as far as being on top of your games in your 40s and consistently beating guys 20 years or more younger than you?
TF: Johnnie is the epitome of a warrior. He’s one of the coolest people I’ve ever had the pleasure of knowing, in or out of the sport. We’re on the same page with so many things. Competing with him is always fun. I remember at the 2007 Mr. Olympia, I was not feeling well at all. I was on the verge of passing out up onstage, but Johnnie was up there telling me jokes during the judging to take my mind off of it. I’ve known him since we met at the 2001 Nationals, when he won the light-heavies and overall and I was out of the top five in the heavies. When I congratulated him, I told him I was going to win next year and I’d see him in the pros. Johnnie smiled and told me he was looking forward to it. And here we are today, still on top of our games and showing the young bucks how it’s done!
JJ: I love competing with Toney because he’s an awesome guy, just so cool and laid-back. I respect the hell out of him. Any time I see Toney’s name in the lineup, I know it’s going to be a battle.
RH: Thanks guys, and as a fellow over-40 bodybuilder, I really enjoy seeing you two still kicking asses and taking names.
Johnnie’s Typical Back Workout*
Lat Pulldowns to Front 6 x 15 (first two are considered warm-ups)
Pull-Ups, neutral grip 4 x 10
Supported T-bar Rows 5 x 10 up to 7 plates (final set is a drop set— 7, 5 and 3 plates)
Dumbbell Rows 3 x 10 (up to 200 pounds)
Seated Cable Rows 3 x 15
Machine Rows 4 x 10
Hyperextensions 3 x 15
*Warm-ups not shown
Johnnie’s Training Split
Monday: Chest
Tuesday: Back
Wednesday: Arms
Thursday: Legs
Friday: Shoulders and calves
Saturday: OFF
Sunday: OFF
Toney’s Typical Back Workout*
Lying Leg Curls 4 x 25
Deadlifts (barbell or Smith machine) 4 x 10-15
Chins 4 x 20-10
T-bar Rows 4 x 8-25
Barbell or Dumbbell Rows 4 x 8-25
Lat Pulldowns 4 x 8-25
*Because Toney usually hits back twice in an eight-day rotation, exercises and their order are constantly changed around for variety. The only consistent portion is leg curls and deadlifts at the start.
Toney’s Training Split*
Day 1: Quads and hams
Day 2: Chest, front and side delts
Day 3: Back, traps and rear delts
Day 4: Biceps and triceps
*Rest days are not planned, but taken as needed at any point.
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