Written by Ron Harris
14 May 2019

19nyp-juanjon

New York Bros Train Shoulders

Jon De La Rosa & Juan Morel's Dominican Delt Demolition

 

They’ve been great friends for years, and certainly Jon and Juan have a lot in common. Both grew up in New York City, both are of Dominican heritage, and both are now top IFBB Pro League bodybuilders. They’ve faced off on stage before, and this weekend, they will do it again at the New York Pro. Let’s take a look back at the time we had them train shoulders and talk shop about building killer delts.

 

RH: Everybody knows you two are good friends. But not everyone knows how you met and how you wound up becoming friends. How did that happen?

 

JM: It was backstage at the 2007 Eastern USA, where we were both competing. We started talking there, and we would see each other at the New York shows from then on. I don’t think we actually started hanging out and training together until around 2009 or 2010. But now he’s like a brother to me.

 

JD: He forgets how it started even before that show! We had a mutual friend named Armando Pena, who had been a teenage sensation. Armando is Dominican and had trained with Victor Munoz and Victor Martinez. He was part of that crew. I would meet Victor Martinez to train at Steel Gym or 19th Street Gym, and Armando would train with us. He kept telling me about this other guy he trained with named Juan, who looked great and who said he would beat me at the Easterns. When he trained with Juan, he would tell him about me and how I was talking smack that I would beat him! Once we finally met at the show, we figured out it had all been Armando just trying to start trouble, or a rivalry between us. I got second in the light heavies, and Juan didn’t make the top 10. But that’s when we started talking.

 

RH: What was your early shoulder training like, and how has it evolved over the years?

 

JD: My early training can best be described as obnoxiously stupid and too heavy. Like most aspiring bodybuilders, I would watch Ronnie Coleman DVDs and see him doing military presses with 315 and figure OK, that’s what I need to do. It never crossed my mind that it took him many years to build up to that, and that he wasn’t just throwing the weight around any old way and using practically every muscle in his body. As time went on, I learned to remove my ego from lifting and back off the weights. I shifted the focus to contracting the muscles, and gradually added weight. Good form is a must, especially with shoulder training. You are not going to get nice rounded caps swinging up a pair of 60s for lateral raises when you should really be using 30s.

 

JM: People look at my shoulders now and assume they were always big and wide and round, but they were actually a very average body part when I started out. They sloped and had no caps to them at all. My workouts then were pretty similar to what I do now. I’ve always done presses, but laterals were what I found brought my side delts up the most and got them rounder and fuller. I do six to eight sets of them. I also like supersets. Pumping the shoulders up with blood works really well for me.

 

RH: Shoulders are clearly a strong body part for both of you. How has that affected the way you train them these days?

 

JD: I haven’t changed a thing, and I honestly don’t feel my shoulders are that good yet. Compared to my arms and legs, they can still come up.

 

JM: I actually made a big change fairly recently. My main pressing movement for years was standing barbell presses to the front and rear. They worked very well for me and helped me build my shoulders up a lot, but over the last year or so I started getting really bad tendinitis in my left elbow from doing them. So since my shoulders are pretty big now, I decided to do all my pressing on the Smith machine to save my joints.

 

RH: Do you guys think shoulders are something bodybuilders need to be careful not to overtrain, since we use them every time we hit back or chest too?

           

JD: I’m a firm believer that overtraining is very rarely going to be a problem as long as you are taking in enough good food and quality supplements. That being said, you certainly wouldn’t want to train them every day. I like to do a full workout for them on their own, then lateral movements for them after I train chest on a different day.

 

JM: I train everything twice a week. I really don’t believe in overtraining. I think if you eat enough and your strength is still good and not falling off, you’re not overtraining. So many guys are so worried about doing too much, when a lot of them would be bigger if they did more. I train shoulders the day after chest, which is also supposed to be a bad idea. But my chest and my shoulders keep growing. Rules are made to be broken, not that there are really any rules to this stuff anyway.

 

RH: Free weights versus machines is something we debate all the time. Do you feel that dumbbells and barbells do a better job at stimulating shoulder growth than machines and cables? How does your ratio go as far as which you use more on shoulder day?

 

JD: I believe machines and cables can give you a better pump, which is part of the process of making gains. Machines in particular help keep you strict and isolate the target muscle. I like to use them on shoulder day to warm up, and a lot of times I might use them at the end too. The bulk of your workout should be done with free weights.

 

JM: Free weights are the best, but I also think some machines are very effective too. They do a perfect job of isolating the target muscle. But free weights force you to balance them, so you recruit more muscle groups. They also allow you to adjust the motion to your own structure, while machines lock you into one position all the time. Overall, I use mostly free weights; but I do like to use machines as parts of supersets and tri-sets near the end of the workout when you’re going for that crazy pump. That’s when I find them to be the most beneficial.

 

RH: Where do you feel that most trainers go wrong in their shoulder workouts, or to put it in a more positive way, what could they be doing better?

 

JD: The best approach to working any muscle is to back off the weight and work hard on the mind-muscle connection. Feel the muscle contracting and stretching with each rep. I was reading that Big Ramy says he never feels his muscles working when he trains them, which is crazy.

 

RH: I have to wonder if that has anything to do with his lack of muscle detail and maturity, which we have been assuming is only because he’s so new to training.

           

JD: I can’t say. But imagine how much better he might be if he was getting those quality contractions? As a bodybuilder, I’m always learning and evolving and trying to make my training better. Only pretty recently have I been able to feel my chest muscles fully contract, which I do feel has held back its development. Learning how to properly isolate and engage every muscle group takes time and effort.

 

RH: Juan, where do you see guys going wrong in their shoulder workouts?

 

JM: Not just with shoulders, but in general, I see a real lack of intensity. Very few guys in the gym actually train heavy and hard. Most of them afraid to. I understand injuries and the fear of them, because I’ve been hurt more than once myself. But you can’t let that stop you from putting out serious effort and intensity. If you don’t have that in your training, you’re not going to grow.

 

RH: If you had time for only three exercises to train shoulders, which three would you pick?

 

JD: Behind-the-neck press, lateral raises and seated bent laterals.

 

JM: Military press, dumbbell laterals and rear laterals. About as basic and effective as it gets for shoulders.

 

RH: What’s your favorite type of overhead press, and why? Also, do you think presses should always be done first in a shoulder workout?

 

JD: I would go with the behind-the-neck press. My entire focus with my shoulder training is to create more width. That’s critical when you aren’t as tall as a lot of the other guys. Military presses hit more of your front heads. When you have your elbows back, it’s a lot more side delt activation.

 

JM: I loved the standing press for years because it’s the hardest type to do. When it comes to training, easier is never better. Dumbbell presses are also tough to do, but they give you great results. They do become tough to get into position and balance as you get heavier. As far as when to press, that depends on the person and what they need more of. If you are seriously lacking side delts, do your laterals first when you’re fresh.

 

RH: Two things not everyone does for shoulders are direct front delt work and upright rows. Do you think those are optional movements, or should everyone be doing them?

 

JD: I love upright rows. For me, I get all three deltoid heads involved. I do them at every workout. Front delt work is something I don’t bother with. They get plenty of work from chest and shoulder presses.

 

JM: I don’t do either one of those exercises for shoulders. I do think upright rows are a good exercise for traps, though. Not for me. I don’t train traps anymore because they just grow too easily. I could have no neck if I wanted to look that way! But that’s me. If you like upright rows for shoulders, go ahead and do them. I don’t see the point in doing front raises, honestly. If you’re doing presses for your shoulders, there’s no need to work front delts directly.

 

RH: Let’s talk about rear delts for a second. You see so many guys with decent mass in their front and side delts, but they turn to the side and there’s nothing back there. Why do you think this is so common and what’s the solution?

 

JD: It’s just neglect, which is probably because they’re behind you. Out of sight, out of mind. It’s also tough for a lot of guys to get the form down right on rear laterals.

 

JM: Guys usually don’t train them much, or if they do they do them wrong and wind up hitting their lower traps. You need to learn to squeeze them and get a pump. If you’re not feeling them work and you’re not getting a pump, you’re not doing them right. Pick a really light weight and learn how! I feel the rear delts are so important that I do two or three different exercises for them. I want to have all three heads of my delts popping.

 

RH: It’s been said that shoulders are one body part that can never be too big. Agree or disagree?

 

JD: I disagree. Some people have told me I need to make an effort to make either my arms or legs into a freaky body part so I stand out more. That makes no sense to me, and goes against what I believe bodybuilding should be. My dad was a bodybuilding fan going back to the days of Arnold, Frank Zane, Bob Paris and others who had complete, symmetrical, proportionate physiques. Nothing really stood out, and nothing lagged behind either. Now you have some guys known just for giant arms or freaky quads, which is silly to me. Any body part, even shoulders, can be too big if it doesn’t match the rest of the physique.

 

JM: I agree, even though some critics have said my shoulders are so big that they make my arms look like they lag a bit. My arms are 22 inches, and the reason they don’t look as impressive as they should yet isn’t because of my big shoulders. I’m taller and my arms are longer. They need to be 23 or 24 inches, and they will be!

 

Military Press

JM: This is the best overall shoulder builder you can do. It allows you to use the absolute heaviest resistance to overload the delts. Just make sure you take your time and warm up, and don’t go so heavy that you can only get a few reps. You need to respect your shoulder and elbow joints if you plan on doing this a while.

 

JD: I usually use a barbell for these, and it’s been a staple in my shoulder training from day one. I remember seeing pictures of Arnold doing them when I was a kid.

 

Behind-the-Neck Press

JM: A lot of guys are terrified to do this exercise, but I have never had a problem with it. But that’s an individual thing. If it doesn’t feel right for you, don’t do it. But if it feels fine, don’t be afraid to press behind the neck.

 

JD: Any exercise can technically be considered risky, because you’re putting extra loads on the joints. I do a few things to make this exercise safer. For one thing, I don’t throw 315 on the bar. 135 is what I use most of the time, and 185 at the most. I do my reps slowly and under control, and only lower the bar to the top of my ears. Lowering down to the traps will wreak havoc on your rotator cuffs.

 

Machine Press

JM: This is a unique machine they have in Bev’s that hits the front delts perfectly. It feels like a military press, but obviously you’re locked into position and don’t have to balance anything. Even toward the end of my shoulder workout, I can load a few plates on each side for good reps.

 

JD: This machine to me is more like a high angle incline press, which is fine. I can always use a little more upper chest! Usually if I use it, it’s at the end of a workout as part of a superset.

 

Dumbbell Lateral Raise

JM: You will never get your delts to be as round and capped as they can be without plenty of laterals, period. I like to do six supersets of these with bent laterals for the rear delts. I tried that one time and the pump was so unreal that I kept doing it.

 

JD: Form is so, so critical on lateral raises. If you aren’t feeling your side delts contracting, you need to check that ego and go grab a pair of lighter dumbbells. Forget about going heavy. I have yet to see anyone using heavy dumbbells on these and using proper form, and I have seen some very big guys train shoulders.

 

Rear Lateral Raise

JM: If you have lagging rear delts, it would be a good idea to do these first in your shoulder workout while you’re fresh. Aside from not doing rear laterals at all, another reason a lot of guys have weak rear delts is because they only do a couple half-assed sets at the end of their shoulder workouts.

 

JD: I don’t do laterals or rear laterals anymore. Instead, I came up with a hybrid movement that gets both the side and rear heads very well. What I do is start the reps bent over with my torso parallel to the ground, then raise up to about a 45-degree angle as I am doing the rep. It takes a little while to get the hang of and you definitely want to start very light until you do, but it’s a very effective combo exercise.

 

Jonathan’s Training Split – 7 Days, No Days Off

Sunday:           Chest

Monday:          Back

Tuesday:         Delts

Wednesday:    Legs

Thursday:        Arms

Friday:             Chest and some delts

Saturday:        Hamstrings

 

Jonathan’s Shoulder Routine

Seated Lateral Raise Machine           3 x 20-30 (warm-up)

Military or Behind-the-Neck Press     4 x 15-20

Hybrid Side/Rear Lateral Raise          4 x 15-20

Upright Rows                                      4 x 15-20

 

Juan’s Training Split

Day 1: AM: Chest and triceps            PM: Biceps

Day 2: AM: Back – heavy                  PM: Shoulders

Day 3: AM: Quads                             PM: Hamstrings

Day 4: AM: Chest and arms  

Day 5: AM: Back – lighter                  PM: Shoulders

Day 6: AM: Quads and hamstrings

Day 7: OFF

 

Juan’s Shoulder Routine

4 sets of Smith Machine Presses to front – 15-20 reps        

3 sets of Behind-the-Neck Smith Presses – 15-20 reps

3 sets of Standing Side Lateral Dumbbell Raises, superset with Seated Rear Lateral Flyes – 15-20 reps each

3 sets of Standing Side Lateral Dumbbell Raises, superset with Rear Delt Machine Flyes – 15-20 reps

3 sets of Smith machine presses, 10 reps to front, 10 reps behind neck (20 reps total)

 

 

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